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October 13, 2008


They'd all pay for their crimes if Americans had the balls to drag them from homes and beat them to a pulp. I fear those days are over. Revolution to overthrow a corrupt government was only the stuff to create a Nation, not to keep it honest.

Freude, re-read that last sentence from your snippet. This is what he's really mourning: his loss of relevance.

Did you get to see Frum on The Rachel Maddow Show? Rachel nailed him on his false 'equivalency' argument regarding things shouted at McCain/Palin rallies v the "tone of shows like this one". Classic documentation of 'neocon-meltdown'.

Come on you can't advocate violence against another citizen and then denounce it when the opposition does it.

We're better than that. It's why we have laws and... RACHEL!

Beat to a pulp? Dragged into the street? Come on. Are we no better than the other side? I'm no fan of guys like Frum, but damn! I saw earlier a picture of a noose next to Obama. Do we really need to go to places like this? You sound like a stormtrooper when you say stuff like that, and I'm not talking about Star Wars.

You people scare me. Settle down. Seriously. This kind of rhetoric is not cool. Not cool at all.

I have to second MoDMaN. Let's rachet down the violent talk. Please. We're the good guys, remember... Let's take our cue from Rachel who was respectful, thoughtful anddid not interrupt and, in doing so, thoroughly humiliated Frum.

That's the way to do it. Watch the video again: Frums entire affect is defeated and self-disgusted. He's wallowing in a hell of his own creation. Let us leave him to it, and concentrate on respectfully and thoughtfully keeping others from making his mistake.

We're the good guys. Let's act like it... mkay?

Rachel dueled quite well with Frum.
He basically said that we can only discuss politics in a serious muted way.
I can't wait for his scalding attacks on Rush, Hannity and Bill O for their antics.
Also can anyone dig up examples of Frum using humor to make a point?
He was the one that coined the phrase "Axis of Evil". Way to tamp things down David.

Frum is an atavistic, vicious little fuck who deserves to be dragged from his home and beaten to a pulp with the bones of his victims.

This jumpted out at me, too.

This is precisely why threats of violence are so dangerous. It is an incredably infectious disease. Though after eight years of subtle covert permission to buy into vendetta, I'm surprised we as a country aren't MORE infected that we are.

And back to the original topic: I was seething by the time I got done watching Racheal's interview of From. He's obviously one more firestarter trying to proclaim he's the fire chief. Later I found the link to the British TV interview that had both Galloway and From on as guests. Reminded me of the line from Angels in America when Belize describes Roy Cohn: "Terminal crazy and mean!"

Shorter Frum: Perhaps it is my calling in life to be an annoying asshole.

Marat, we're poor
and the poor stay poor
We want our rights
and we don't care how
We want our revolution now.

Yes, being well-behaved has worked so well against thugs. Why don't you go behave well and see how effective that tactic is while the administration erodes your right to protest?

There's a rational reason why Mohadas Ghandi chose to rebel with non-violence as his means. The British had all the guns. Besides having moral authority, non-violent obstructionism was the only effective tool at his disposal. Likewise, oppressive regimes have no moral authority to inspire cooperation. So they must compel obedience through force. It had occurred to me that overthrowing one regime with another by force usually only results in a different set of oppressors. (I thought this even before i became a Quaker.)

BTW Mahatma is a title. His name was Mohandas. I thought Rachel should've pointed that out.

"vicious little fuck" My thoughts exactly! Rachel kicked his sorry ass and he almost cried.

Agreed, being 'nice' is why Cheney and bush weren't impeached. It's why Rumsfled, Wolfowitz, Feith etc aren't in prison. It's why Rove has been allowed to lie to the Country he's lived in with impunity.It's how bush won a 2nd term despite his being the most dishonest President in US history.

You people who want to be 'nice'...just hop in the tank for McCain. Maybe another 8 years of Bush-stle Leadership will knock the nice out of you.

"Frum is an atavistic, vicious little fuck who deserves to be dragged from his home and beaten to a pulp with the bones of his victims."
NO! Dammit this is how we got to torture! This "They do it so it's alright for us to do it" crap has got to stop. WE'RE BETTER THAN THAT!

Guys, can I just point something out here?

It's pretty clear to me that Freude was being metaphorical, that he's angry at Frum and expressing his anger, as is his right.

We're not talking about a major influence on the political dialogue of this country. He's not Kos or Atrios.

Yes, people read him, but I think the point that "we're better than they are" neglects some facet.

That is, we ARE better than "they" are. We get that this is just one man's frustration, and that if Frum was standing in front of Freude, Freude would likely not pull out a tibia and bash his head in.

We're not a pitchfork wielding crowd hellbent on putting deed to word. The First Amendment IS safe with us.

No, don't lynch these scum - that would make them into noble martyrs in the "minds" of their followers.

Arrest the quislings, try & convict them for sedition, treason & war-crimes ... & leave them to rot in prison until they die. They deserve nothing less.

Perhaps the next generation of would-be putschists will think twice, when they see their ideological ancestors in orange jumpsuits making picnic-tables & stamping licence-plates.

The heart of Blogenfruede's comment is whether Frum will "pay the price for his crimes."I heartily agree with the other commenters that threats of violence don't lead anywhere good, no matter how rhetorically satisfying they may feel. But over these last 8 years and more, real laws were broken, time after time. In my opinion the survival of civil society requires that lawbreakers pay the price for their literal crimes. One key to that is going to be President Obama appointing a fearless US Attorney for the District of Columbia to replace the do-nothing time-server now occupying that slot. Because I live in Detroit, where an arrogant and corrupt mayor was recently forced to resign and was sent to jail by a tenacious elected county prosecutor, I can think of none better than her, Kym Worthy, for that job. When the certifiable crooks start going to jail, the enablers and hangers-on like Frum (if that's all he was) will scurry from view and hopefully not trouble public life again. Or so one would hope. The specter of the resurgent McCain, in spite of the Keating scandal, would suggest that something more thoroughgoing and less merciful is required this time around. But legal ! and not violent!

Violence may not be an issue, but what will you say when they come for you?

I'm not advocating violence but I do see the potential for it. I hope it doesn't come to that though. WAKE UP PEOPLE.

did you catch this turd on rachel maddow last night?
i found the following comment on rachel's blog...
_ _ _ _ _

David Frum's reaction

From his blog:

"Mirror Imaging

One follow up to the post below - and the literally hundreds of emails it has elicited ...

Just before I traveled to Afghanistan, I accepted an invitation to appear on "The Rachel Maddow Show" on MSNBC when I returned. This was not something I'd normally agree to do: I don't watch the show, but I had (or thought I had) a rough idea of what it was like.

But I write a column for The Week, the appearance was booked through them, so I agreed to do my bit.

Big mistake. I watched the show in horror in the MSNBC green room. Maybe I was a bit crankier than usual: I'm still jet-lagged enough that I have been going to bed by 8:30 most nights this week ... Anyway I was unprepared for the sarcasm and anger of what I saw.

So when it was my time to go on air - and instead of being asked about Afghanistan I was asked about how awful and hateful the John McCain campaign was - I got a little grouchy. I dont know if there's a tape visible anywhere.

(My closest relatives insist it was OK. Then again, my wife is a big believer in Judith Martin's quip that the key to a happy marriage is the ability to say with a perfectly straight face, "I don't know what you are worrying about darling. I thought you were very amusing last night, and I'm sure everyone else did as well.")

If I find it, I'll link.

Now after receiving more than 100 emails from NRO readers (mostly) scolding me for selling out the team by criticizing the McCain campaign on CBS in the morning, I am now sifting through more than 300 emails from (mostly) enraged viewers accusing me of rudeness to Ms Maddow (sorry - her fans call her "Dr Maddow") for declining to criticize the McCain campaign on MSNBC in the evening ..."

God, I hate this guy. Do you think being "cranky" is an excuse to go on to appear in a show and then insult the host of that show? On what ground is he saying he didn't want to criticize McCain campaign when he did that to Sarah Palin?! If you want to hate this guy more...go to http://frum.nationalreview.com/

ditto that.

You people who want to be 'nice'...just hop in the tank for McCain.

Yeah, because bloodymindedness and violent rhetoric are hallmarks of strength.

For Christ's sake, people. I fly into impotent rages too, but at least I realize what a dipstick I am afterwards.

After Kerry failed to defend himself against the swiftboaters do you think he was glad he didn't feel like a dipstick?

Have you woke up everyday for the last 4 years thinking, yah, we still have bush but at least I don't feel like a dipstick?

Isn't it great the shape the country is in because a democratically controlled congress shelved impeachment or didn't pull funding on Iraq...at least they don't feel like dipsticks.

We had 14 years of a republican congress, and 8 years of bush, but at least we don't feel like dipsticks.

Yeah, I know, you're wicked hardcore, and I'm a sellout. Oh, and a concern troll, too.

Shame, really, because if I weren't such a pussified appeasement fetishist, maybe I'd have the standing to point out that, while your Kerry example is well-taken, there are numerous points on the spectrum between "not even making a token attempt to defend oneself" and "publically indulging in lurid revenge fantasies."

Look, I'm not trying to be all holier-than-thou. I'll put my record of flailing impotence and grotesque hyperbole up against yours any day. But it's not lost on me that Maddow--and Obama, incidentally--are kicking copious amounts of ass by not being total spazzes.

Just something to mull over.

When Obama becomes President while Congress is majority Democrat do you think anyones going to pay for the crimes of the last 8 years? No, we have revenge fantasies precisely because we know not one of these criminals will face justice - and it sickens us.

I'm not hardcore, but if this republican led episode of the last 8 years ended in a Sum Of All Fears - The Movie way...I wouldn't shed a tear.

And one last thing, if McCain hadn't ran the most bizarre campaign in modern history, he wouldn't be down 10 points. Let's not give Obama all the credit.

And one last thing, if McCain hadn't ran the most bizarre campaign in modern history, he wouldn't be down 10 points. Let's not give Obama all the credit.

I'd make the opposite argument: that McCain has kept it THIS close until now because he'd run (until last week) a pretty good campaign and that any other Republican would have *started* ten down.

Wow - I step out for a few minutes and look what happens!

Agreed, being 'nice' is why Cheney and bush weren't impeached.

Perhaps I was being metaphorical, but the last 8 years has turned me into a different kind of liberal. Hundreds of thousands have died because of these people. Countries have been destroyed and millions have been displaced. Thousands have been tortured.

War crimes have been committed. If guilty, those responsible should be executed. Period.

War crimes have been committed. If guilty, those responsible should be executed.

I'd agree with that. (I'm more of a public stocks guy, but I can see how hurling rotten vegetables at people might seem tin-eared during an economic downturn) My point is, you don't get to execute them. You don't even get to bring clever signage to the Hague, I don't think. Catharsis is hard to come by when you're one of the good guys.

I dunno, dude, I just don't understand how anybody could've been paying attention for the past week and not swear off this sort of talk for a spell. I'm all for brutal imagery in writing, but there are people calling for mob justice in public fora as we speak, and y'know what? I say we let them be unique in that regard. Even if our imagined targets deserve it more than theirs.

I'm not hardcore, but if this republican led episode of the last 8 years ended in a Sum Of All Fears - The Movie way...I wouldn't shed a tear.

In the sense that everyone will give it a thumbs-down and say that the male lead had no business being cast in the role? Or in the sense that the fatherly black guy will walk away with his reputation intact even though he's spent his whole career imparting a gloss of respectability to ill-conceived projects? 'Cause he already bolted, y'know.

Ah, crap, what'd I do, hit preview instead of post? Damn it. I worked really hard on the wording of that "Sum of All Fears" joke.

The no frills version: Howzabout we let the right-wing scumbags calling for mob justice remain unique in that regard?

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